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Money Management

Lecture notes series: Percent Risk Model

by Gav Leave a Comment

Reading notes for percent risk model

This blog post was written back in 2006 when I first started trading. I thought there are some key concepts that are useful to new traders.

I have a habit of writing down whatever I learned, this helps me to ‘burn’ the information into my mind. I did this during my school time as well. I decided to jot down what I have read from books so far in the Lecture Note series.

As mentioned in my previous posting, I am following Percent Risk Model for my position sizing. Of course, this is not the only model available, it is just the approach I applied in my trading.

I have amended the approach to suit my style. Basically, I will define the initial stop level base on the chart. It can be a support/resistance level, straight trend line, Count backline, or swing high/low.

Definition:

RISK – the point at which I will get out of the position in order to preserve my capital. It is x percent of my trading equity, for example, I will risk not more than 2% of trading equity in any trade.

Percent Risk Model – Controlling my position size as a function of the risk. For example, with account size of $50,000, 2% of $50,000 is $1000. That means in any trade, I shall not risk more than $1000 with this account size.

If I got a Long signal for SIMSCI at 289 and I have figured out from the chart, the proper stop loss level is at 287.5. On a one-contract basis, this trade requires a $300 risk. With a maximum risk amount of $1000 available to me, I will be able to buy ($1000/$300=3.33) 3 contracts in this trade.

I quote a portion of Dr. Van Tharp’s explanation from his book

Just how much risk should you accept per position with risk position sizing? Your overall risk using risk position sizing depends upon the size of the stops you’ve set to preserve your capital and the expectancy of the system you are trading.

Dr. Van Tharp

Here goes on the explanation:

if you are trading other people’s money, you probably should risk less than 1 percent per position. If you are trading your own money, your risk depends upon your own comfort level. Anything under 3 percent is probably fine, if you are risking over 3 percent, you are a “gun-slinger” and had better understand the risk you are taking for the reward you seek.

Dr. Van Tharp

He explained the relationship with system expectancy as well:

if you have high expectancies in your system (i.e your reliability is above 50% and your reward to risk ratio is 3 or better), then you can probably risk a higher percentage of your equity fairly safely.

Dr. Van Tharp

The percent risk model is the first model that gives the trader a legitimate way to make sure that a 1-R risk means the same for each item he is trading.

The advantage of this model is, it allows both large and small accounts to grow steadily. It equalizes performance in the portfolio by the actual risk. On the other hand, the disadvantage will have you reject some trades because they are too risky.

These concepts are very important for new traders to understand.

Filed Under: blogs Tagged With: Money Management

Talking about $Risk/Reward and winning%, in Twitter-style

by Gav 25 Comments

Risk/reward vs Winning %

Back in 2009, I was very active on Twitter, so did a lot of old-time trader-friends. There weren’t so many “gurus”/”Furus” back then. Twitter discussions were solid and helpful.

Some of them (Twitter friends) had since stopped trading or left social media. It was the good old time. I learned a lot. This blog recorded one of the many conversations I had on the Twitter platform.

The original blog post was written back in 2009. Over the years of blogging, it has been buried. I decided to refresh this blog post since it provides some food for thoughts to new readers of this blog.

We had a short conversation over at Twitter to discuss the importance of a higher probability setup (I assume this implies the setup provides a higher winning rate) and risk/reward ratio. I quoted the Twitter messages here. I thought this is an interesting discussion, and it shows the different risk perceptions, tolerance, and expectation of each trader.

There is no absolute right or wrong. That was just a casual discussion, and we were not trying to convince each other about anything.

Phileo99: speaking of risk/reward, isn’t it a bit overrated? I think the probability of the setup is more important than the risk/reward ratio

you can have a 5:1 reward/risk ratio, but if the trade setup is poor quality and low probability, it is a bad trade to take.

instead of thinking risk/reward ratio, i prefer to think, “where can this instrument go?” “when are the odds in my favour?”

Trader Gav: @Phileo99 No.RR and probability should work together. Nobody is more important. low prob setups need higher RR to survive.

Phileo99 :@tradergav if consistency is the goal, then i’d have to disagree – probability of the setup is way more important than risk/reward

Phileo99 :i’d prefer to hit 10 singles vs. striking out 9times before i hit the homer …. easier on the psyche. losing streaks are hard to take.

Trader Gav: @Phileo99 it depends on your mentality. Profitable strategies can be 40% winning% with 1:3 RR consistently.

Phileo99: @tradergav true – there are different paths to +ve expectancy. we all choose our paths 🙂

Trader Gav:@Phileo99 Right. Common goal is +ve expectancy. Each has his/her own way.

Prospectus: @tradergav I’d rather have a higher probability setup so that the roll of the dice is less likely to bite me. But it’s my preference

Trader Gav:@Prospectus that’s normal. nothing wrong with that. Just personal preference. I weight more on RR and expectancy.

Phileo99: @tradergav I would agree that for system trading, neither is more important than the other. I was speaking from discretionary trading PoV

Prospectus :@tradergav I think that the right personality can clean up on big R:R–we see it all the time among the greats. That’s just not me.

I had some thoughts on this topic.

Firstly, regular readers might have known I favor the R/R concept. In other words, before establishing any trade, the risk/reward ratio is the first figure that being calculated on my screen. And, Yes, it determines if I am going to take the trade.

However, I do not expect every trader or any trader to have the same temperament or risk tolerance. One of my strategies is, in fact, running at around less than 50% winning rate but with high expectancy, in other words, each trade provides a high risk/reward ratio. Man, are you able to accept to be wrong 6 out of 10 times? Who doesn’t love to be always right? But I love $$ more.

Back then, out of curiosity, I took a trial of a signal service of two prominent analysts/traders (guess who? I’m not telling you). The selling point of their strategy was a high winning rate. If I still remember correctly, they claimed to have a 70% winning rate. However, after reviewing their trade history, I noticed, on average, they were making 30 pips by risking 70 or more on each trade.

Here is the calculation.

  • Reward: 30 pips
  • Risk: 70 pips
  • winning rate:70%
  • number of trade =100

Profit = [70 trades x 30 pips profit + 30 trades x (-70 pips loss)] = 0

Assuming trade size is constant, and all losses are taking at full risk amount (i.e 70 pips). This calculation is not the exact math, it is meant to demonstrate the possible effect of risking more than potential reward.

Well, so, with the impressive 70% winning rate, over a period of time, net profit is impressive 0. I did not consider break-even trade, since It did not happen too much in the trade history. 

Winning % and Risk/Reward ratio is a pair of tools. They have to work together. Nobody loves losing streaks. However, you can win 70% of the time, with just a couple of losing trades to wipe out your previous earnings. So…you got the point.

There are two points that come out from here:

  1. You do not need to be right frequently in order to profit from this business. Winning % is not the only factor in profitability.
  2. Consistency, We are talking about trading profitable over the long haul. Trading is not an activity for one to feel good about being right all the time. It is for profit. If you are looking for the ‘Feeling good’ activity, then, look elsewhere. At the end of the day, you need the dollar to pay the bill.

Of course, I am not suggesting one to take sub-par set up with a big risk/reward ratio. That depends on your overall strategies, and that’s a different topic.

The point is risk/reward ratio should part of your consideration when determining if your setup is a quality setup. A high-quality setup should not come with an inferior risk/reward ratio. Be it discretionary trading or system trading. The math remains the same. You got to know why you are taking the trade.

To play around with risk/reward calculation, have a look at my old post Accuracy vs Risk/Reward ratio.

OK, I talked too much.

Filed Under: blogs, Learn Trading Tagged With: Money Management, Trading Lessons

Quote from Interview with Tom Basso

by Gav Leave a Comment

Here is an important note quoted from Van. Tharp’s Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom, 2nd Edition. Just to note it down here, and hopefully it helps some of the 12 readers.

Given your goals in terms of returns and drawdowns, what kind of initial risk stop do you want? If it’s close, will you be able to get right back into the market so that you will not miss a move?

Stops, in my opinion, should be a violation of the reason why I wanted to get into the trade in the first place. And yes, I always have a way to get back into the trade.

My stop is a function of the market and what it’s doing. It’s only in directly related to risk – unless the risk is too big for me to even take a position. I control risk as part of my position sizing.

Have good trading week ahead.

Filed Under: Trading Lessons, Trading Quotes Tagged With: Money Management, Trading Quote

Effective Cost Technique

by Gav Leave a Comment

[Update 2021]: This post was written back in 2007 November. Unfortunately, the original webinar has been removed and I guess the presenter is no longer with FXstreet as well.

I have managed to find the presentation slides here. Hope it helps.

Tony Juste from Fxstreet.com posted a presentation on money management in the forum of Fxstreet.com. It is called ‘Effective Cost’ Technique. The outline as follow:

  • It is a defensive technique. It is based on the probabilities of success of a particular position initiated.
  • It was built to prepare for the worst-case trading scenarios It allows for moderate profits while attempts to keep losses under control.
  • Allows a trader to determine the stop loss level:
    • Based on equity drawdown
    • Based on technical triggers

Full presentation is available in this thread of the forum. You have to sign up a free forum membership to gain access through. Good stuff. Go and have a look.

Filed Under: blogs Tagged With: FX, Money Management, Trading Journal

Trading Business plan 101

by Gav Leave a Comment

I have been doing some thinking and studies over the past weeks. I had some good days and some bad days over the past 2 months. Well, I guess, I'd better figure out the details of managing the trading business while I am still in nice profitable situation rather than searching for 'holy grail' for survival after hitting losing streaks. At least, mentally, I am not under heavy stress now.
The R-multiple concept hits me well on the head. I have figured out the importance of it in order to survive in this business for long. Well, at least for now, this is the best approach that comes to my mind. I am currently following Percent Risk Model. I am not trading a million-dollar-sized account now. So, the objective now is to grow the account as soon, and as much as possible. Well said, tough job though. I am striving to improve and maintain my system with high expectancy and frequency of trade.
So the first thing in the morning is to figure out how much I am going to risk and position size to be taken for the day.
This is second thing I will be doing every morning before start of a new trading day. Basically, the idea is not to go against the trend. Some profitable movements in short term might be missed out, however, I would prefer to go along with the trend for long term survival.The time frame are only refering to intraday trend of the day. I am not looking at longer time frame like daily , weekly or monthly. This is shuold simplify my job during the trading day where I will be only concentrating on the last thing of trading – entry and exit point.
This is for my day trading business. Nothing fancy. The last thing I will say in this entry : " Hey, Don't Buck the trend – lah"

  MSCI Taiwan Index Futures MSCI Singapore Index Futures
Longer term
Down
Down
Medium term
Lateral
Lateral
Short term
Up
Up
Recent High    
Recent Low    

Filed Under: Old blog archive Tagged With: Money Management, Strategy & tools

Trade management : Position Sizing I

by Gav Leave a Comment

This was originaly posted on Traderswin Stocks Trading. I have edited in this version. The advantage of using stop loss (mentally or submit to your broker) is nothing new. There are numerous literatures on this topic. To me, the most important feature of stop loss/trailing stop is giving me a peace of mind to ride the trend and protecting my capital and paper profit. I am not going to discuss stop loss now, instead, I am interested in position size with relevant to stop loss.
It is very important for a trader to believe and acknowledge that outcome of each trade is always unknown when we enter the trade. This leads us to a very important information, since the outcome of the trade is unknown, then "how much can I afford to lose in this trade?"
So we have an idea about the potential risk now, we should start thinking about position size. I remember I was once teased by my broker (partly because he is my friend) when I purchased only 5 lots of a penny stock. 'There is no way for you to make any big profit'. Well, outcome of this trade is not the purpose of this posting, but it does show that we tend to focus on the outcome of a trade instead putting the importance of protecting capital. It is not how much you are going to earn from the market, but how much you are preparing and afford to lose that matters. Remember, we do not know what is going to happen after we establish a position.
How much share to buy? A very simple formula is as below:
Position size = (Risk amount – commission)/(entry – stop loss)
This assumes we do have a trading plan with risk amount and stop loss well defined. Risk amount is defined as the amount we are preparing to lose if the trade did not work out. There are theories and discussion on determining risk amount, the most popular and the simplest one should be the 2% rule. The rule basically tells us "Never risk 2% of your total trading capital in any trade."
I use support/resistance level in conjunction with trend lines (Straight or sometimes parabolic) to determine stop loss level of any trade. This takes a little of time and experience to learn the technique.
The position size that is calculated by the formula will limit our risk exposure in the market. Of course, for punters or novice trader, no one shot big profit will ever happen since position size is limited, but, over the long haul, it shows us the way to survive in this fantastic business. Here are some good articles on Money management Position Sizing: Why Size Matters to All Investing Greats Money Management or Position Sizing or Bet Size… No Matter What You Call It, Better Know It

Filed Under: Trading Journal Tagged With: Money Management

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